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Agile doesn’t have a brain. At least, that’s what our next guest argues (quoting Jeff Gothelf, who in turn is quoting Bill Scott). It’s not that the Agile framework isn’t great for shipping high-quality code efficiently. Rather, there isn’t necessarily room in the process for deciding which features to build, or whether they’re taking real user needs into account. To have a more human-centered approach to developing products, Design Thinking can work in tandem with Agile. Read on to learn how Jason Goodwin, Director Of Global Innovation, Lab Of Forward Thinking At Manulife and John Hancock, thinks about making Design Thinking play nice with Agile.

Jason Goodwin

Director Of Global Innovation, Lab Of Forward Thinking At Manulife and John Hancock

Eli Woolery: Tell us about Lab of Forward Thinking (LOFT) and your role there?

Jason Goodwin: LOFT is the two-headed monster of innovation at John Hancock and Manulife. One of them is emerging technologies. So we’re really active in AI machine learning and Blockchain IOT type stuff. The other head is really kind of my part, which is heading up the human-centered design aspect.

We operate in this sort of special middle ground between unmet user need and technology fit. We try not to let one hold the other back, but we really do try to let them come together in meaningful, impactful ways.

Eli: What are some of the technologies you see around blockchain that are going to impact consumer banking in the next few years?

Jason: One of the people who’s very influential to me is this guy named Nick Emmonds who works with me. He said something recently that I really loved: “It’s sort of similar to the gold rush, where it’s not really about finding gold but rather it’s about selling shovels.” I think that is a really cool metaphor for how we’re trying to approach it.

This notion of decentralization of things is really cool. And it sort of speaks to the inner anarchist in me that you can try to topple these giant huge organizations that control all of this stuff. It really kind of puts it back in the hands of actual people. I think that’s really super interesting and definitely a powerful part of it.

Eli: Has your teaching at General Assembly helped you spread the good word on Design Thinking at your work right now?

Jason: Definitely. I would like to say, when I came into the job I have, my intent was to carpet bomb the company with Design Thinking to get everybody at least aware. I think we trained more than 2,000 people in the first couple of years we were there in Design Thinking, and that felt really good.

Jason with a highly advanced prototype

And then we moved more into a consultative space to say, “So you understand Design Thinking a little better. Maybe you’d be interested in this two-hour crash course we’re offering or this other thing that we’re doing?” Then people get interested. They start to see how Design Thinking fits for what they’re working on. That helped to get people to come back for more and really apply it. I really want more of that — but the teaching definitely helps.

Jason teaching at General Assembly.

Eli: A lot of the teams that we talk to are working in Agile, and they get stuck in this mindset of “move fast and break things.” What are some of the ways Design Thinking can play nice in an Agile environment?

Jason: That’s a tough one because, like you say, Agile is all about speed and efficiency. And I think Design Thinking is about being thoughtful. In my perfect world, Agile isn’t the thing that everybody says is truth and everything else must slot into Agile. I think there’s a world where Design Thinking is the spine of it. And Agile slots into that.

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